Not sure how to consolidate this. I've been "seeing" a guy who is already in a long term relationship with someone else. We were friends first, then things just progressed. He has no intention of leaving to be with me, nor have I ever asked him to do so, especially since that someone else is my best friend... He cares for both of us, it's a situation with no good solution. I know I should let go of the "more than friends" part, but I'm terrified of what that may mean for us. Some part of me keeps clinging to the thought that the physical and more than friends part has brought us to a deeper level of connection that will be lost, and i find myself struggling. Almost like a part of my mind is thinking the more I give, the more attached HE will become so he won't abandon me. He says he wishes he could love me the way I deserve but it can't be, which I know. I like feeling like I matter to someone, that maybe I'm fullfilling an extension of something he needs, feeling safe with him, etc. I have never met someone as connected to my mind as he is--he has helped me in recovery before all this. We have both been trying to be better about not being physical other than hugging, but it's hard when you have such a connection. I know he'd stop completely if I requested it, and that's why I haven't because I don't want to lose him. At the same time lately I've had feelings of resentment because deep down I want so much more in a relationship, esp. not needing to sneak around...Every time the phone rings I jump, hoping it's him, if I don't hear from him much on any given day I feel empty and alone. Sometimes I have trouble sleeping, wondering if he will show up for a late night visit and I don't want to be so asleep I don't hear him. He isn't in need of rescue or being fixed, which is different than other guys I've been involved with, so I don't know if it's codependent or not?
On a side note, is there a post already on here somewhere with just a list of codependent behaviors? One of the suggestions for step 4 is to list your codependent behaviors and those involved, I'd like to do that!
Not sure how to consolidate this. I've been "seeing" a guy who is already in a long term relationship with someone else.
I don't get it! If he is NOT married, why can't he just drop that relationship and become your "exclusive" until he marries you?
We were friends first, then things just progressed. He has no intention of leaving to be with me, nor have I ever asked him to do so, especially since that someone else is my best friend... He cares for both of us, it's a situation with no good solution.
Oh there's a solution if one or both of you are willing to go there. Someone is going to get hurt here but sneaking around and playing this cat/mouse game is going to hurt someone even worse, IMO.
I know I should let go of the "more than friends" part, but I'm terrified of what that may mean for us. Some part of me keeps clinging to the thought that the physical and more than friends part has brought us to a deeper level of connection that will be lost, and i find myself struggling.
What's the "struggle"? One of you has to decide which partner they want unless someone believes they can have a Harem!
Almost like a part of my mind is thinking the more I give, the more attached HE will become so he won't abandon me. He says he wishes he could love me the way I deserve but it can't be, which I know.
Sorry but this is all beyond me.
so I don't know if it's codependent or not?
It's definitely Codependency! Now the question is, how to get to the Solution - assuming you want one.
Jimrich, would you mind pointing out the details as to why it's codependent? Also I didn't want to say, since I don't want to be judged. ...but as a clarification yes, he is married :/
Jimrich, would you mind pointing out the details as to why it's codependent?
I found these at: http://coda.org/index.cfm/newcomers/patterns-and-characteristics-of-codependence/
I do not recognize the unavailability of those people to whom I am attracted.
I have trouble setting healthy priorities.
I am extremely loyal, remaining in harmful situations too long.
I accept sexual attention when I want love.
I give up my truth to gain the approval of others or to avoid change.
I have trouble setting healthy boundaries.
I think and feel responsible for other people for other people's feelings, actions, choices, wants, needs, well-being, lack of well-being, and ultimate destiny.
IMO, it is more important for you to research and identify your own Codependency issues so go here: http://will.tip.dhappy.org/projects/unsorted/project/media/text/Melodie%20Beattie%20-%20Characteristics%20of%20Codependent%20People.html
to learn more about Codependency.
Also I didn't want to say, since I don't want to be judged. ...but as a clarification yes, he is married :/
IMO, any person involved with a married person needs to honor the married person's wedding vows even if the married person can't or won't honor their own vows. The vows alone should keep such an affair from ever happening or STOP it when it does happen! The married person needs to get a divorce and then go with the other lover or marry them but NOT play around in a Codependent affair that is HURTING everyone involved!
Some part of me keeps clinging to the thought that the physical and more than friends part has brought us to a deeper level of connection that will be lost, and i find myself struggling.
I'm not sure what Coda Characteristic covers this but I'd simply call it Denial or Delusion. Either way, it's harmful, IMO.
-- Edited by jimrich on Wednesday 12th of October 2016 12:39:07 PM
Speaking from experience here ... I slept with my best friend's fiance way back when .... this is a VERY bad decision for everyone involved.
It is also the epitome of Codependent for all the reasons jimrich listed.
Luckily my best friend found out and forgave me and we are still extremely close to this day. She taught me about true love and forgiveness. When it came time for me to make my amends she said "Willing, don't you dare. You have been making amends and carrying this for 20 years. Let it go." To this day I don't think I deserved her forgiveness. I was being extremely selfish, disloyal, dishonest ... well, it was betrayal through and through. It has been 20+ years and it is still the most horrid thing I have ever done to anyone in my life and I carry it with me.
Willing
__________________
Live so that when your children think of fairness, caring, and integrity, they think of you. ~H. Jackson Brown, Jr.
It is in pardoning that we are pardoned. ~St. Francis of Assisi
Speaking from experience here ... I slept with my best friend's fiance way back when .... this is a VERY bad decision for everyone involved.
It is also the epitome of Codependent for all the reasons jimrich listed.
Luckily my best friend found out and forgave me and we are still extremely close to this day. She taught me about true love and forgiveness.
Willing, thank you for sharing your experience with this. I really never thought I'd ever find myself doing what I'm doing, it's surreal. I have always found it difficult to feel my feelings as far as sometimes I feel numb, but mostly I don't allow myself to be vulnerable enough to cry... You also mentioned in another post being drawn to "unavailable men," why do you think that is, as a codependent? Do you think it's because I am creating a self-full filling prophecy where I get myself into relationships that can't work in a healthy way just so it will fail and I can say "Yep, see, you are not loveable! You're not enough?"
Luckily my best friend found out and forgave me and we are still extremely close to this day.
Whew, I'm happy for both of you.
She taught me about true love and forgiveness. When it came time for me to make my amends she said "Willing, don't you dare. You have been making amends and carrying this for 20 years. Let it go."
It often amazed me how embarrassed or even annoyed some folks become when I offered my amends/apologies but I finally figured out that they refuse or reject apologies because their Pride is afraid that, by accepting apologies, they will HAVE TO apologize for the offenses they've committed. No matter! I apologized because it was the right thing to do and not to get some reward or even an acknowledgement from the ones I'd offended in the past. I did it it for my own peace of mind and not to GET something.
To this day I don't think I deserved her forgiveness.
IMO, you "deserve" to forgive your self.
I was being extremely selfish, disloyal, dishonest ... well, it was betrayal through and through. It has been 20+ years and it is still the most horrid thing I have ever done to anyone in my life and I carry it with me.
I hope that Recovery work will relieve you of that burden some day
Bless you,
jim
-- Edited by jimrich on Wednesday 12th of October 2016 11:36:40 PM
You did not address me here but I'll offer an opinion anyway..........
You also mentioned in another post being drawn to "unavailable men," why do you think that is, as a codependent? Do you think it's because I am creating a self-full filling prophecy where I get myself into relationships that can't work in a healthy way just so it will fail and I can say "Yep, see, you are not loveable! You're not enough?"
Seems you have given your self an answer so now, what is the Solution? Where do you go from here? What does Coda have to say about your situation?
Oh ... recovery has served me well. I'm not carrying my bag of rocks anymore. Yay! Although when I am telling my story in recovery and this one comes up it is the toughest to tell. But, I have forgiven myself ... for my own sanity ... still amazed my friend forgave me and forever grateful.
Ape130,
I answered your other post. As to why you are doing the things you do ... only you can find those answers. I recommend a sponsor and working the steps. The self-awareness (and a LOT of other things) it offers is amazing.
Willing
__________________
Live so that when your children think of fairness, caring, and integrity, they think of you. ~H. Jackson Brown, Jr.
It is in pardoning that we are pardoned. ~St. Francis of Assisi
The married person needs to get a divorce and then go with the other lover or marry them but NOT play around in a Codependent affair that is HURTING everyone involved!
Thank you, I will definitely look up those resources to see for myself how I think this fits in. Healthy boundaries are alluding to me, always have been...honestly for me it's often a struggle to figure out what is "healthy and normal," because I've lived this way almost my entire life. I'll start out feeling like I have a renewed commitment to boundaries in regards to this man, but as soon as we start talking or see each other, it seems I throw everything out the window! Almost like I’m addicted to him or overly-attached. Many times I've recognized that I'm the one trying to almost remind him that he wants me, maybe as a way of feeling needed? He has been trying a lot more to be good and appropriate, yet something inside me was triggered, feeling rejected. Like I believe being physical is all I have to keep him there even though he has told me many times that isn’t what he wants and our friendship outside of that matters most.Why didn’t that make me feel happy in the moment, why instead did I panicked and become so fearful of losing him that I purposely tried to seduce him?I don't know...but yes, you're right it's a terrible situation I got myself into. I found it interesting the phrase "A codependent affair..." Someone told me once "I think many of us “use” you on accident because you are so willing to do whatever."
Thank you, I will definitely look up those resources to see for myself how I think this fits in. Healthy boundaries are alluding to me, always have been...honestly for me it's often a struggle to figure out what is "healthy and normal," because I've lived this way almost my entire life.
For me, the eye-opening things I learned at sharing meetings and book studies made and continues to make things about life and my behaviors more and more clear plus the Solutions that I found so far. IMO, the Solution was and still is the whole point of Recovery or Spiritual work and, hopefully, the Solution will finally bring some kind of peace and happiness.
I'll start out feeling like I have a renewed commitment to boundaries in regards to this man, but as soon as we start talking or see each other, it seems I throw everything out the window!
Without acquiring new and better behaviors, beliefs and UNDERSTANDING, our old, conditioned patterns will usually take over and MAKE us do stuff we somehow know is not OK. For me, it's like re-programing my self to STOP acting out old conditioning and START doing things differently even if I'm not perfect at first.
Almost like I’m addicted to him or overly-attached. Many times I've recognized that I'm the one trying to almost remind him that he wants me, maybe as a way of feeling needed?
Feeling "needed", loved, wanted, accepted, etc. is probably to most pervasive injury to children in dysfunctional families since our parents (who were also damaged as kids) are really not capable of giving us adequate love, respect, care and fulfillment of our needs. So we go off into the world EMPTY HANDED and desperate for someone or thing to fill up the holes in us or fulfill our needs. We are NEEDY - thanks to inadequate parenting/care-taking. The only working solution to "neediness" I've found are various forms of self respect/worth/esteem/confidence so I am not such an empty and NEEDY creature out begging for crumbs.
He has been trying a lot more to be good and appropriate, yet something inside me was triggered, feeling rejected. Like I believe being physical is all I have to keep him there even though he has told me many times that isn’t what he wants and our friendship outside of that matters most.
Who molested or offended you when you were a child so that you now believe you need to be "physical" to be loved and accepted?
Why didn’t that make me feel happy in the moment, why instead did I panicked and become so fearful of losing him that I purposely tried to seduce him?
Who "seduced" you when you were little and innocent? Who USED you back then to make you think that seduction and being physical is the only way to have your needs met for love and acceptance???????
I don't know...but yes, you're right it's a terrible situation I got myself into. I found it interesting the phrase "A codependent affair..." Someone told me once "I think many of us “use” you on accident because you are so willing to do whatever."
Who "conditioned" you to be so willing to do "whatever" when you were young and defenseless??? Who USED you back then???
You did not address me here but I'll offer an opinion anyway..........
You also mentioned in another post being drawn to "unavailable men," why do you think that is, as a codependent? Do you think it's because I am creating a self-full filling prophecy where I get myself into relationships that can't work in a healthy way just so it will fail and I can say "Yep, see, you are not loveable! You're not enough?"
Seems you have given your self an answer so now, what is the Solution? Where do you go from here? What does Coda have to say about your situation?
That I should pursue relationships with others who are able to engage in healthy relationships, accept myself as I am and start recognizing myself as loveable. If only I could figure out the actual process of getting there would be great! Affirmations are something I'm working on and writing down something positive about myself.
When I was around 4 or 5 years old we had a frequent babysitter. She would invite several of her guy friends over after my parents left and a lot of abuse happened to me then. I also was taken for overnights at adult sitters home, and though I don't recall specific memories regarding what happened at night there, I can feel within myself that something did. I've struggled with this, because I have suppressed most of the memories, though I'm not sure if it would do any good to recall them now...Would knowing exactly everything that happened help my understanding enough to pull me out of this?
jimrich wrote: Who molested or offended you when you were a child so that you now believe you need to be "physical" to be loved and accepted?
When I was around 4 or 5 years old we had a frequent babysitter. She would invite several of her guy friends over after my parents left and a lot of abuse happened to me then. I also was taken for overnights at adult sitters home, and though I don't recall specific memories regarding what happened at night there, I can feel within myself that something did. I've struggled with this, because I have suppressed most of the memories, though I'm not sure if it would do any good to recall them now...Would knowing exactly everything that happened help my understanding enough to pull me out of this?
I am very, very sorry that these terrible things happened to you as a child and can only say that perhaps a professional might be the best thing to help you CAREFULLY access and work through the trauma that these offenses have most likely caused you.
Would knowing exactly everything that happened help my understanding enough to pull me out of this?
I can only say that remembering my past in great detail (I was not molested) helped me a great deal to understand why I became as I did and also how to undo the damages from my childhood. I cannot imagine doing any meaningful emotional/mental work without understanding how a person became so messed up later on in life. Until I entered therapy, I had no idea why I was such a mental wreck for most of my life. It all came down to very bad parenting although I have not ruled out some genetic or "disorder" thing along the way. I had a form of PTSD put here by abusive, terrifying and unloving parents!
That I should pursue relationships with others who are able to engage in healthy relationships, accept myself as I am and start recognizing myself as loveable. If only I could figure out the actual process of getting there would be great! Affirmations are something I'm working on and writing down something positive about myself.
The process I went through was finding a sponsor, working the steps and through the skills I learned in that journey I started researching and learning about better relationship behaviors. I had to fix myself first, learn how to be comfortable in my own skin and love myself. Then I had to learn new behaviors since I had never done them before. Now finding someone with good relationship / communication skills is a challenge but I will never settle again.
Willing
__________________
Live so that when your children think of fairness, caring, and integrity, they think of you. ~H. Jackson Brown, Jr.
It is in pardoning that we are pardoned. ~St. Francis of Assisi
When I was around 4 or 5 years old we had a frequent babysitter. She would invite several of her guy friends over after my parents left and a lot of abuse happened to me then. I also was taken for overnights at adult sitters home, and though I don't recall specific memories regarding what happened at night there, I can feel within myself that something did. I've struggled with this, because I have suppressed most of the memories, though I'm not sure if it would do any good to recall them now...Would knowing exactly everything that happened help my understanding enough to pull me out of this?
Oh my dear I am sorry. I too was molested when I was young by several different men. I finally stood up for myself when I was 15 and said NO MORE! It was empowering and stopped the abuse.
I didn't delve into the details of my abuse but I did do a lot of work around the feelings I carried, especially the shame, guilt and belief that the only way a man was going to love me was to offer them my body.
I HIGHLY recommend a sponsor and working the steps. Do you have local CoDA Meetings? If not, do you qualify for any of the other 12 step programs? I have been to AA, Al-Anon and CoDA.
Willing
__________________
Live so that when your children think of fairness, caring, and integrity, they think of you. ~H. Jackson Brown, Jr.
It is in pardoning that we are pardoned. ~St. Francis of Assisi
I didn't delve into the details of my abuse but I did do a lot of work around the feelings I carried, especially the shame, guilt and belief that the only way a man was going to love me was to offer them my body.
I HIGHLY recommend a sponsor and working the steps. Do you have local CoDA Meetings? If not, do you qualify for any of the other 12 step programs? I have been to AA, Al-Anon and CoDA.
Willing
I've been in professional counseling for 2 years now, and I feel it's done little good. I'm thinking of either stopping entirely or trying a different counselor at this point, and I haven't decided which. I have a lot of shame for sure, and a belief that physical is all I'm good for and on their terms, also a fear of speaking up for fear of repercussions even if I haven't experienced any from a certain person. I've been going to a local Addiction Recovery meeting, which is for any type of addiction because the CODA ones are a good hour away which is difficult on the weekdays for me. I've been stuck on Step 5 for a while and haven't been able as a result to continue working the steps, I finished my step 4 in July and have been sitting on it since. I finally got the courage to ask my friend and 12-step mentor if she'd do it with me and she said yes, so I just need to set up a day...
Still just struggling with feeling rejected and empty over the last while, as my guy friend I mentioned earlier has been doing really well at being appropriate. Again, instead of feeling happy and grateful and like I'm cared about as a person rather than a piece of meat, I don't. I feel like I've lost something, maybe even my ability to offer him a reason to stick around? I don't know. I have a hard time identifying my feelings and the reasons behind them as it is...almost anticipating being abandoned in one way or another.
