In my recent marriage, (I'm a widower now) I dropped my tendency and need to openly talk about certain things in favor of keeping the peace and to be SAFE while not bugging my new/beloved partner who was somewhat sensitive to certain topics so I fell back into the "no talk" rule of Codependency and swept certain things under the carpet because our union was otherwise to WONDERFUL to upset.
Thanks to sharing meetings, where I learned to open up and loudly talk about the most painful, irritating and frightening things inside of me, I should have known better than to fall back into polite/safe silence rather than disturb my new beloved partner but that's what I unfortunately did!
Towards the end of my late wife's very painful and miserable life (She crossed over back in May) some of these unsettled issues began to pop up since she no longer had the power or will to keep her unresolved feelings safely bottled up and hidden! I knew what was happening to her since I'd spent a lot of time and effort dealing with and venting my own bottled up traumas from childhood but didn't know what to do for her at that late stage of her life (she was 72). It was obvious that her inner daemons and Toxic Shame were finally coming up to be dealt with but she was way to sick and worn out to handle them in the way I'd dealt with mine.
Now that she's gone, I can see that my fearful reluctance to open up and talk about disturbing things in our union was a BIG MISTAKE and, if I had it to do over, I'd open my goddamned mouth and talk about stuff no matter what! There might have been fights and tears but at least we would have gotten to some resolution of disturbing issues and shameful feelings instead of stuffing them down inside in favor of TEMPORARY peace, quiet and SAFETY which began to unravel at the end anyway! Our love and respect was incredible and magical BUT the things we both avoided and ignored finally came back at the end to bite us on the ass! We ended as loving friends BUT the unresolved stuff still hurt a lot and I wish we had cleaned it up years ago when we still had the chance.
I have resolved that, should I enter into another relationship, I will never again allow the "no talk" rule or Toxic Shame to shut me up and, if my partner can't or won't talk about stuff, I will be instantly GONE. I am now convinced that the "no talk" rule is the deadliest and most pervasive flaw in Codependents and society as a whole followed by Toxic Shame. In my sick family, the "no talk" rule meant that ugly things would just dry up and blow away if ignored and forgotten - but they never did. The ugliness just kept reappearing over and over and over despite everyone's loyalty to the rotten "no talk" rule! Hurt, damaged, shamed feelings DO NOT simply disappear because we ignore or forget them regardless of what society wants to believe about hidden trauma!
My late wife's family LIVES BY the "no talk" rule and Toxic Shame so I am pretty much done with all of them for now.
Feelings buried alive never die--I've come to recognize this although I still have a lot of work to do on speaking instead of bottling to keep peace or to avoid shame. It's crazy because I have all these things I want to say that I think through when I'm alone, and then as soon as I'm with whoever I should talk to and I begin, I just clam up. The words leave my brain or I become almost paralyzed in my speech, it's weird... So sorry for your loss Jim...
I believe it would take a couple of life times to find a person/partner whom would be a good open book about any topic. People are secretive in nature looking out for number one. Take a failed marriage or any number of addictions that almost everyone shares in some way. Mix that with someone whom is trying to recover from CODA issues. And the best you could expect would be partial bits of truths as long as deep shame did not enter into the equation. Anyone can tell you about an abusive past and there be some actual truth to it. Dig to deep and they minimize the topic to control the shame. Some things just remain in the dark. With the knowledge that marriage failure rates are over 50%. Most married people or people in a relationship I know, would shadow the real truth due to the unknown future of a relationship.
Now with that being suggested. It does not mean a person (like me) cannot move forward in their CODA life.
Some things in my life, I had no control of what happen, or the events surrounding them. If I can just accept that it happen to me, and learn something from it. Then I can move on with my life. If I continuing to re-live the past trauma in my life. I will be stuck in the blame game forever. Just my opinion.
I’m not saying I don’t speak up to honor myself or to speak up about something I feel needs to be said. But I respect someone rights and feelings, in not telling me about a painful past that will not be changed, by exposing the details to me. At best maybe in years in a relationship this SO person. Maybe able to share more and more information, if they feel comfortable enough with me.
In my opinion I think having a relationship with a higher power is all that is really needed to deal with these personal past shameful topics for the most part. Cheers
It's crazy because I have all these things I want to say that I think through when I'm alone, and then as soon as I'm with whoever I should talk to and I begin, I just clam up. The words leave my brain or I become almost paralyzed in my speech, it's weird..
People are secretive in nature looking out for number one.
Not to offend you but people are absolutely open and honest up to the age where those around them FORCE the child to become "secretive" just to be accepted by the tribe or survive. I was painfully honest up to about age 6-7 after which my parents "lowered the boom" and let me know in stark terms what would happen to me if I DID NOT begin lying and omitting as all the adults were doing. I finally got it and became the biggest secretive/liar any of them had ever seen!
If I continuing to re-live the past trauma in my life. I will be stuck in the blame game forever.
We sure don't want to re-live the past or get mired down in Blame - just learn what we can by honestly examining it.
I’m not saying I don’t speak up to honor myself or to speak up about something I feel needs to be said. But I respect someone rights and feelings, in not telling me about a painful past that will not be changed, by exposing the details to me.
In my recovery work, I never once considered "changing the past" - just examining it to learn what I could about my self and my parents. The past cannot be changed once it's over and done with but the here and now consequences from the past might be open to change though.
"Not to offend you but people are absolutely open and honest up to the age where those around them FORCE the child to become "secretive" just to be accepted by the tribe or survive."
From Parent&Child magazine.
Conventional wisdom long held that young children were not capable of lying. More recent research, however, has found that most children learn to lie effectively between the ages of 2 and 4. The first successful lie can be pegged as a developmental achievement because it marks the child's discovery that her mind and thinking are separate from her parents'. This same understanding is marked by the discovery of the word no, which helps young children delineate the boundaries between their own desires, thoughts, and feelings, and those of others.
Like everything else, children learn to lie from the people around them. Parents and teachers show children in subtle — and not so subtle — ways to suppress their honesty. "Look at that funny man," a child will yell. "I don't like this," she'll say of Grandma's gift. "Yuck," he says about food that doesn't taste good. Adults slowly teach children that this kind of honesty is not always welcome — that there is a fine line between telling the truth and not hurting other people. Children also observe active lying by the adults in their lives. (One research study found that adults admit to lying an average of 13 times a week!) We all tell lies of convenience, and our children watch and learn — but not always so literally.
fap, thanks for this article."I don't like this," she'll say of Grandma's gift.
I was about 10 and, while eating dinner at our aunt's home, I was NOT eating a certain item on my plate so the Aunt asked me why and I "honestly" said, "I don't like it.", which caused her to deeply frown and a sudden silence to come over the table. Then my mom quickly changed the subject! After dinner, my mom roughly pulled me aside and angrily told me that if my dad had been within arms reach of me, he would have KNOCKED me away from the table for OFFENDING her beloved aunt. I went into catatonic shock at the grim thought of my extremely violent and fearful dad putting his terrifying hands on me! I was also puzzled that my honesty was taken so badly by all of the sour-faced adults. Then my mom gave me a quick lesson in diplomacy (LYING) to tell someone why I am not eating their most treasured food. I don't recall what my mom told me but I sure remember the Meta Message = "say or do anything you can to AVOID punishment/retaliation"!
Since then, I've seen this dishonest pattern over and over in society - "say or do whatever it takes" to avoid bothering others and their RETALIATIONS! Tell the truth at your own peril!
LOL, and now, with Recovery work, I've fallen back into the habit of being HONEST and it's cost me a lot! Oh well........
Personally I think after living a life of telling the little and big white lie to keep from upsetting someone or rocking the boat in failed relationships. Having living 50+ years of life with codependent tendencies. I do not believe it is possible to be totally honest 100 percent of the time. I thrive to be honest in most situations. But there is always that other person or a situation, that either pushes the buttons that make me fall back to this bad habit. Maybe I just get lazy and think everybody lies. So what difference dose it really make. Looking at the state of the world, especially here in the USA with this presidential election at hand. I'm a absolute saint, in comparison to that stuff. lol
I am painfully honest, work hard to say what I mean without being mean ... but I am horrible at sugar coating. I try to only share my experience or how I feel and avoid starting sentences with "you" ... like "You did this ... or You should." If I can't speak my truth I choose silence. This approach does not work well with folks and causes me no end of grief from people, but it is who I am and I accept it and really can't spend time fretting over folks who can't accept it.
I am not a saint, but if I lie the guilt absolutely eats me alive so I tend to avoid it.
As for stuffing the truth, I lived that way for years and after recovery I also can't do that. I had no idea how to identify or deal with my own feelings so sharing them definitely wasn't happening. I was consumed with shame about my life so I never opened up afraid I wouldn't be loved ... or worse, they wouldn't even like me and think I was as bad as I believed I was. Now I feel like a pressure cooker and I find that I need to speak my truth early if something is bothering me. The nice thing is that I live a fairly drama free life so this isn't an issue often. If things pop up that cause me emotional distress I am a problem solver. I have to fix it asap and that usually involves communication. Through recovery I found that opening up and sharing who I am and how I feel is the answer to all the pain I had been suffering for years. I have even learned to not be afraid of doing so most of the time. It is a freedom I never thought possible.
Willing
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Live so that when your children think of fairness, caring, and integrity, they think of you. ~H. Jackson Brown, Jr.
It is in pardoning that we are pardoned. ~St. Francis of Assisi
