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Post Info TOPIC: Some CODA thoughts...


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Some CODA thoughts...
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There is a move around the MIP boards to support each other, to keep in touch.

This is the healthy framework I sought in my journey- where i grappled with my codependency issues.

I may never be a regular member here but will support those who choose to meet here, the respect the integrity of CODA.

 

It was introduced to the codependency idea pretty early on in my recovery. I believe that i was one of the first men to

start to come to terms with the issue.

 

The gals in my Alanon group formed a separate group to read and discuss the book- "Women Who Care Too Much" by Robin Norwood.

I got a copy of the book too, and read it on my own. Following on the gal-group began to work through Melody Beatties' two books

on codependency. And I followed suit.

 

In recent times I really soaked up Bob E's talk on Self-Esteem. In this he implies, at least for himself, as an addict that an underlying

sense of codependency was a strong part of his illness. Only one person- and I could not draw conclusions from this.

 

So, how do you think I am going- am I keeping 'on-topic' for a share on this board?

The key, and the aim, I think is to be open and receptive to and from others... not to make too many assumptions....

To become self- aware- of my own wants and needs. Not to be dragged back to my own deep sense of abandonment- to be self-sustaining...

-thanks for the share, and thanks for reading through! biggrin...

 

DavidG.



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Hi David,
Good to hear from you! I think you are on topic. Everything's a topic like in ACA.
They all blend and overlap.
"Codependent" issues span far or wide and tend to be 'other centered' in relationships. The issues are not the same for everyone and probably differ between the sexes, but not within our basic humanity. I also see that those from abusive childhoods have different issues than emotional neglect. I kept an article by a therapist that talks about that but I will have to look for it. That might be some difference between ACA and CoDA.
It's a balance that every person has to find. For me, responsibility to my family has always been paramount. But I can overdo it, then get disgusted and underdo it! I feel lost not doing for them, but don't want to be needed, want to be wanted! In fact, I get p----- off being treated like a resource.
And much of the difficulty is cultural.
I enjoy Robert Burney, I find him quite wise. He wrote: "Codependence: The Dance of the Wounded Souls" and speaks about a codependent dishonest culture that keeps so many in the lies amd untruth. He has a couple videos on Youtube. What I like about Robert is he agrees with therapists who say the 'scapegoat' of the family (that was me and a lot of ACOAs from what I've read, called "black sheep" back in the day) is the most emotionally honest, sensitive or strongest (to bear up under the accusations and onslaughts), although John Bradshaw ("Healing the Shame That Binds You") seems to think the scapegoats of the family deserve their bad reputation!
Maybe that's why I don't like Bradshaw that much ! (confirmation bias).
I understand about accusations from those not admitting to the big elephant in the room.
Been there. And did do some of them too, hah. But the big elephant still wasn't discussed.

I listened to Bob E.'s "Self Esteem" enjoyed it, he's a good speaker and funny. Have not read "Women Who Love Too Much."

Wish I had the kind of faith that God brings it all to us. I don't. I don't think I ever have. But I look back and see more than I thought or remembered was there.

I found your Maori song (chant) to your buddy's passing quite moving. I am sorry to hear there were problems, but not surprised. the way of the world.
Come visit again. Not many posters here.
Kath


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Okay, so I dined out on your first posting all day yesterday...

I read again yesterday... and decided you were responding-

at pains to believe that I have had some recovery- and this should show up on the CODA board... confuse...

 

but yes I was scapegoated bady... it showed up especially when dad died and I was actually disinherited and dumped.

After years of effort trying to hold things together... which I did do- economically too!!!

 

If we crawl out of our bunkers... like you will have I have a library of self- help books sitting at my shoulder...

each thinked had something to add- but my own personal response... here you have it... aww...



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Sure. Any recommended resources are appreciated and will be acknowledged.
Stories here and there are helpful.
I am not alone, what do you know. A bit embarrassing at this late date, but oh well, I'm known for more bizarre things!
And yes, I also think codependents and I believe counter - dependents too
(who might not ever understand that such might be at the bottom of their trust issues), suffer from fear of abandonment, and it does not look the same in everyone.
My sister is even more independent than I am in many ways and I am finding that she has it somewhat too as well as some of what might be co-dependent issues. She has a lot of pride and a bit of an inflated ego, (lol, can't we all have) so I am approaching things carefully and judiciously, but it is great to finally be able to talk about our past and family MO with her, and our developing positive relationship is a joy. We were isolated from each other and have avoided each other for most of our adult life (or at least I avoided her, not trusting her).
I have actually tried to get her to understand that if I was screwed up, it was our upbringing, not because I am inherently battling.

I am sorry to read of your unacknowledged efforts and subsequent betrayal. I can see how far it might go for men, who could be considered to carry so much burden as their 'natural role,' and not to hurt like a human being.  My husband taught me that, men cry too.  

It is difficult to get over that kind of betrayal from family who is supposed to have loved us. 
Kath



-- Edited by barelythere on Tuesday 21st of February 2017 01:29:21 AM

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smile... a quirky sense of humour, plus some bathos and pathos... might be a mark of progress...

    ah see a cue here to listen and nod... wink... maybe to add some ESH of my own,in a day or so... biggrin...



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 Lots of strands and streams here to hold onto...

    my relationship held together, and has become pleasant, much of the time... set against a massive shift towards equality towards all- in fact as well as spirit...

but going through all of that was fraught!

 

The moves towards gender and cultural equality seem to have stalled somewhat at the moment... maybe a breathing space?

I am still working through stored trauma issues, slowly... and I seem to be reviewing all the stuff I learned along the way... what was the most effective...?

I estimated that I needed 30 or 40 years of group work- at the usual pace. But here with MIP I felt that route was speeded up with back to back meeting time.

Being betrayed by our own parents... living in a rural community there were many compensations... not enough to forestall a revolting late teens and 20's... and series of seriously dysfunctional relationships... the dream the the car, the white picket fence and the mortgage- along with a sweet compliant you-know-who went straight out the window.

So I think there were trends out there that rank alongside the family.

Abandonment- rejection... and outright betrayal...  I shunned my mum for three years... and she began to see why i was so pissed off... so i was on a happy state where we met eye to eye before she died... this was a saving grace...

In ACA we are taught to become our own loving parent... sometimes I doubt and question this... but sometimes I suspect the doubt and question phase is actually the way in... something we were unable to manoeuvre first time round... ???

I actually downloaded the CODA steps this afternoon... I always believe that if we do the steps in one programme- we get credit for prior learning if we move sideways- this one is always a personal judgement- building on some previous gains...

...just bin to a circus with SO and two grandkids... it was an acrobatic team from Mainland China... it was a delightful evening... I laughed and clapped.

Me? Oh yes... I have to pinch myself sometimes!!! wink...

 



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"In ACA we are taught to become our own loving parent... sometimes I doubt and question this... but sometimes I suspect the doubt and question phase is actually the way in... something we were unable to manoeuvre first time round... ???"


I like that. Faith is sneaky and grows when you least expect it!
Doubt only proves it real.

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Hello there,

I am new here. Not so good about talking with others about this, so instead I put my feelings about my own experience in a song...it's an outlet for the emotional roller coaster that our lives become when living with and trying to help an addict. Let me know if you can relate. It's called 'SINK OR SWIM'

Take care everyone,
SLS

www.youtube.com/watch



You screamed, "I'm drowning!"
I jumped in to save you
But your ocean was so deep
It pulled me under too.

I started bleeding
Fighting sharks along the coast
Didn't know you were the predator
That I should fear the most.

***

I built a raft
I paddled harder
But you just sat there
Oars dragging through the water

{CHORUS}

I stood still so long
Afraid to rock this boat
There's no staying steady 'gainst your raging waves

And even when the seas are calm
You know it never lasts for long
No peace in the eye of a hurricane

So this is where I go to shore
Can't keep you floating anymore
Yours is a battle that I'll never win

And even after all I gave
It turns out it's your life to save
Sink or swim
Darling
Sink or swim.

{END CHORUS}

We took on water
I bailed it out faster
But you made so many holes
Intent on this disaster

I sailed the white flag
Hoping that they would find us
Didn't know that you were covering
The trail left behind us

***

So why'd I stay?
Why'd I keep treading?
Caught in the current
Couldn't see where this was heading

{CHORUS}



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Hello SLS, welcome to the board

Music has been a big part of my life enhancing the joy, authenticating the angst, it is quite a form of communication, maybe one of the purest forms. I often go to it to reach my peace, to dance, to sing, to just listen, to go as deep inside as I can or to go out and share, to give it back, wanting others to share the bounty all around. 

Did you write your song? You are quite a poet.  

Addiction by its very nature is so self centered. "THAT NEXT FIX, THAT PAIN BEHIND NEEDING THAT FIX. Does anything else exist? I'll have one problem so I don't have to deal with all the problems of life others will have to deal with." 

The big question is why do we self destruct in attempts to share another's self destruction. We are only human, not gods, and that humanity is a two way street. We can't save another if we are not saving ourselves from their destruction. We are here to help each other yes, not to help each other drown. 

Alanon is a good place too. Lots of communication and posting going on there. 

But keep coming back. Maybe someone else will join us for conversation.



-- Edited by barelythere on Monday 20th of March 2017 06:23:13 PM

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