The Only thing that worked for me?

Got a sponsor and worked the steps...

Explanation

Boundaries to me are what the entire Program hinge on, learning where I end and another person begins, I spent nearly my entire life wondering why my "boundaries" worked with some people but not others, because I thought enforcing a boundary meant informing another person how they had harmed me, telling them "I feel ____ (hurt, betrayed, etc) by this behavior and asking them not to do that any more, in some cases, the person listens, reflects what I said back to me, owns their part, makes amends, and then ceases that behavior, but what about the people who continued the behavior?

THAT is where the boundary comes in, what I just described is just good communication skills and a healthy give and take in a healthy relationship

Even Step One is nothing but a boundary, consider:

We admitted we were powerless over alcohol

That means we are unable to control or moderate someone else's drinking

We admit we are powerless over people, we can't -get- them to behave as we'd like, not by being nice, not by being mean, not by yelling, not by passive aggressive tactics

Step One tells us where we end and they begin, our "power" ends in a hula hoop whose outer diameter ends at the tip of my nose

and our lives had become unmanageable

Because we were spending all our time managing someone else's life with such an adverse reaction, and heavy resistance we lost sight of managing our own lives, our efforts at control increase and their efforts at resistance increase, we resort to passive aggression, they resort to "Gaslighting" and pretty soon everyone is sicker then before and viola', "my life is unmanageable"

Admitting I am powerless over someone else's behavior and my life is unmanageable as the result of trying to manage their lives and becoming so enmeshed in insanity IS A BOUNDARY, it's -THE- Boundary, it shows where my power ends, only by focusing on myself and my actions rather then my reactions am I able to "take my power back"

The serenity prayer is a prayer that asks us to look at our boundaries

God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;  (everything and everybody else)
courage to change the things I can; (me)
and wisdom to know the difference. (see above)

I finally began to view myself as someone who had handed my car keys to someone who was a terrible driver and let them drive me around, and "we" started getting in accidents, so I started becoming a bit of a "back seat driver", I started giving advice and direction and maybe some little hints how to drive, but with me distracting her we started getting in even worse accidents, so I began yelling at her, pretty soon we were getting in fender benders on the freeway and I started actually getting injuries from her accidents, I did everything I could to "make" her a better driver, bringing her different driving manuals, giving her advice, yelling, threatening to leave, leaving, and I'd tell anyone who would listen about what a terrible driver she was, and point out how many ways her driving hurt me, and point out how much better of a driver I was, meanwhile she was viewing me as trying to wrestle control of -HER- car away from her as we both fought over the steering wheel causing more car crashes and more injuries and by the end I was nearly rabid, people would ask how I was and all I could tell them about was "her" and how harmful she was to me, and she was over on the other side, and all she could talk about was how harmful I was as we fought for control over each others lives and behaviors

One day I just got out of the car...it was that simple

It was no longer "her fault" because I was no longer giving my power away, that dynamic makes both partners INCREDIBLY sick, step one and boundaries are the beginning foundation to break that dynamic

Expectations are external, boundaries are internal

Expectations are what we have with other people, usually after they fail to meet them repeatedly, and then we lay down what we mistakenly call "a boundary" <insert behavior modification here> such as " I need you to call if you are going to be home late, especially if I have prepared dinner" after (s)he has come home late for dinner repeatedly, with an expectation and -wrongfully labeled boundary- we repeat this over and over getting angrier and angrier, whereas with a -boundary- we say if you _____ I will _______

 

Boundaries are internal ways to take distance and protect ourselves from other peoples actions, we may say boundaries out loud or not, but in this instance we might say "If You are late for dinner and don't call again I will  not prepare dinner for you for a month

and then if (s)he is late one more time, and then subsequently comes home on time even after that I would prepare my dinner, but not theirs and sit down and enjoy it, whether they were there or not

It can even be more dramatic, such as "If you ever hit me again, I will Leave you and call the Police" or even "If you continue to drink and lie I will be forced to leave you not "you need to change your behavior" but "these are the actions I am going to take", and the absolutely -CRITICAL- part is holding up our end of the boundary, both for us, AND for them, because if we don't we teach both them AND us to not respect us, to not believe we have enforcable boundaries, because we don't, and in my experience that is as equally unhealthy for me as it is for them, we -both- get sick if I have a -negotiable boundary-, I have leanred this both in my personal life and my professional one, it doesn't mean we don't negotiate or have "rigid thinking" but boundaries are "bottom lines" and as such aren't negotiable, I mean even countries to change boundaries (borders) go to war, and the stronger subjugates the weaker, and then "changes the border", I have found the same is true in my interpersonal relationships, if I don't enforce my boundary it teaches us both codependent manipulation, and many other forms of covert warfare or even full frontal warfare, it's just unhealthy with bad results for me

It's said that an expectation is a resentment waiting to happen, because in this instance we are expecting someone to behave in way that -we- want, even if we think it is fair, and it very well may be, it may be a -bottom line- or -deal breaker- behavior, but the single most important thing about boundaries is coming up with realistic ones and then holding to them no matter what, otherwise we just teach people our boundaries are meaningless

I spent years wondering why my "boundaries" seemed to work with some poeple but not others, and I automatically labeled the people who didn't "respect my boundaries" as wrong, bad, and sick, when the truth of the matter standing in front of somebody saying the same thing over and over isn't me enforcing a boundary, it's me attempting to modify or control their behavior and then getting sick, literally sick when it doesn't work, I was going to a hardware store for bread, or I was going to a "dry well for water"

Today I try and use "I feel" statements, lets use the dinner as an example, "I feel when you come home late without calling when I have been cooking you dinner, it shows a lack of respect for me, and if you come home late again without calling, I won't prepare your dinner for a month"

end of conversation, no excuses, no

J:ustify

A:rgue

D:efend

E:xplain

This is how I feel and it is non-negotiable, as is my boundary

If my expectation is that this person who has repeatedly come home late without calling will miraculously begin to call and begin respecting me, I have put a guaranteed resentment in the bank, because in my experience if you have to explain something to somebody like common courtesy and respect more then 3 times they are not likely to suddenly "get it", however, if I put down a boundary (an interior action) I can now protect myself from this behavior

Boundaries are internal, and they -NEVER- ever ever involve someone else changing their behavior, it's how I protect myself from people who -don't- change their behavior, as opposed to -behavioral modification-, which I mistook for boundaries for very many years, there is by definition, no way someone can "not respect my boundary" because my boundary is mine, not theirs, and if they supposedly "don't respect my boundary" I either am in -the wrong relationship- or -have failed to enforce my boundary- it's not on them, it's on me to enforce my own boundaries, whereas the expectation would be "they WILL respect my boundary" and then get upset when they don't...for the 300th time, then maybe give them a lecture about how "If nothing changes, nothing changes" and "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results" and completely miss the irony of what I am saying

So expectations are what I have of other people, ways I want -them- to behave, usually after they don't, and boundaries are a way to protect me from others.

Boundaries can also be covert nearly, such as my father for many years liked to say fairly mean (but true) about my mother and her side of the family, for years I tried to get him to stop and all we'd do is fight, I finally learned to say -the moment- he started doing that "oh someone is at the door" or "I'm getting another call" or "I'm going outside to smoke" and he stopped doing it, he just doesn't do it any more

One thing I learned about "defences" is by nature people attack them, that's why they are called "defences, so when I got "defensive" I invited "attack", with a boundary...it's hard to explain, but it's not a defence, it's a way to remove oneself from harms way emotionally speaking, and when my boundaries are healthy, they not only get respected but they almost seem to disappear because they aren't needed, but they HAVE to be firm.

I wrote on this forum for example about trying to help a family member get sober, and I couldn't do it (my sister) because I lacked the necessary emotional strength to hold as firm with my boundaries as I could with "anonymous" young men, with them I could be merciless, first sign of any BS and they were out, no if's ands or buts, and truthfully, they ALL got sober, and stayed that way for the most part, but with my sister I wasn't able to enforce my boundaries nearly as strongly, they proved to be "negotiable", and then although I was the one that caved in on enforcing my boundary, I responded with anger and "kashback" because of my inability to enforce my boundary, and this was the dynamic that got us both "sicker",  my sister didn't end up getting sober until years later and we both ended up incredibly angry and hurt with each other, because I was unable to maintain my boundaries with her, I had "expectations" instead, and all it did was harm both of us because I was unable to maintain my boundaries

***For me The Program is a package deal, like an alcoholic can "abstain" from drinking and still suffer from untreated alcoholism, and not be "recovered" because they didn't work the steps, my codependency -also- needed the steps so I could figure out my -motives- and see "what my part was", that's why in Recovery it's suggested we do -NOT- give advice, but instead show other members the tools we used in order to arrive at our own answers***

So what would I suggest?

Get a sponsor STAT, I think some life decisions are too important to entrust them to a group of people on an online forum, and I have a tendency to go "answer shopping" when I ask for advice, and of course the "advice" I get that will sound best to me will come from someone who thinks just like I do, therefore I will continue to get the same results and then think the program doesn't work, when we say "If nothing changes, nothing changes" we aren't referring to our alcoholics but instead to our -own- changes, I need to remember it was my thinking that has -ALWAYS- caused -ALL- of my "problems" so unless I change my thinking fundamentally by working the steps I will continue to get the same result no matter -who- I am dating, for YEARS I kept getting the same results although I dated different women, and it wasn't until I sat down with a sponsor and thoroughly worked the steps in a column format that I understood the statement "I was the common denominator in all my relationships" and no amount of self help books or advice or gurus or advice from friends or boundaries or ANYTHING helped because "If Nothing changes, nothing changes" and I hadn't changed yet, not until I worked the steps, there is something that fundamentally changes in a human being by writing down all this stuff in this step format and seeing all our own behaviors in our own words and handwriting that no amount of advice, no amount of meeting attendence, no amount of self help books, no amount of therapy can ever hope to achieve in my experience, of course there are two opinions on this subject those that HAVE worked the steps (Yes, it changed me fundamentally as a human being) and those that haven't (I didn't need the steps and here's why)

 Both opinions are valid, it's just I want what the recovered people I saw in meetings had. Serenity, non judgmentalism love, experience, strength and hope, if I want what someone has, I have to do what they did

OK, now this is just my experience, but I will try to explain it using a "building" analogy, like building a house

When I was a young man I went to work doing construction, the first thing we would do was pound stakes and stretch strings in order to get "flat" and "level" surfaces, from them we built walls that were "plumb" (straight up and down) because when we didn't do that, we'd build the walls and they wouldn't quite meet, something that looked level and plumb but was just a little microscopic bit "off" by 30' away would leave a gap 6" large at the top of the wall then the roof wouldn't fit, it was a matter of skewed perspective, and no matter how hard we tried to force the wall together at the end that showed the gap, it would never fit, because that wasn't where the problem was, although that is where the problem "appeared" to be, that is where the gap was, the hole in the wall, the pieces that wouldn't fit, the harder we tried to force this "square peg in the round hole" and the more we focused on "the problem" the worse it got, we'd force it here, and bigger gaps appeared "over there"

Living with active alcoholism and other peoples skewed realities for a number of years took away my "level playing field", I would crash and burn, get angry trying to force square pegs into round holes, and harder I tried, the worse it got, it was like the story of the man walking down the street and he saw a drunk man standing under a streetlight peering at the ground, so he walked up and asked "do you need help?" the drunk man answered, "Yes, I have lost my keys" so they both searched under the well lit streetlight for the mans keys until the first man finally asked, "Are you sure you this is where you lost your keys?"

 The man answered, "No, I lost them down that dark alley"

"what? then why are we searching here?"

The drunk answered, "Because the light is better here"

For me trying to solve my own problems, trying to set my own boundaries, trying to make a level playing field and plumb lines before I worked the steps was no different then standing under the streetlight looking for my keys, or trying to force two walls together where they didn't fit, because this is where "the problem" appeared to be, when in fact "people hurt us, seemingly without provocation, but we invariably found we have made a decision based on self that placed us in a postion to be hurt"

So working the steps is no different then pounding those stakes in the ground and remapping a "level playing field" and until I did that, no matter -what- I did I kept getting the same results, I set boundaries that were behavior modifications, and I kept making decisions based on self that kept putting me in a position to be hurt, and no matter how I twisted, turned and looked, the furthest I could come up with "this other person is wrong, hurtful, this, this and this is their fault" I had a complete and utter inability to see "my part" and the decisions based on self I was making and -had made in the past- that placed me in a position to be hurt, no matter how hard I tried building a house from a skewed sense of "zero" ensured I would continue making the same mistakes again and again and expecting different results

Einstein said, you cannot solve a problem with the same level of thinking that created the problem.

Said another way is that when you have a problem, your mind is the level of thinking that created the problem. You need to get out of your way of thinking that caused the problem in the first place.

This is a long story, but the short version is this. Your beliefs dictate the possible choices you have to choose from. There is an infinite amount of choices available, and yet we are only aware of a few.

Our beliefs dictate the choices we are aware of. And it is those same beliefs that created the problem or situation you are now asking questions about trying to solve.

A better step up in making choices would be to go within and connect with your higher self, your holy spirit, your inner knowing, whatever you want to call it. Connect with that intelligence that is driving your life, we do that by working the steps.

It can answer outside of your belief systems, outside of the limited choices your mind presents to you. It will give you things that are outside the level of thinking that created the problem in the first place.

Until I did that (worked the steps) I kept doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results, I kept thinking if I tried a little harder for a little longer, if I was more kind, or even more mean, If I set firmer boundaries, or even tried being more permissive, and I kept getting the same. result. every. time.

When I worked the steps it remapped my brain, I learned what "my part" was, and presented me with different choices, thus I began getting different results

Nothing else worked

period, not therapy, not self help books, not seeing a psychriatrist, until I changed -me-, and until I remapped my "flat surface" I couldn't get the roof to fit on my "house" no matter how hard I tried

-- Edited by LinBaba on Monday 6th of June 2011 11:14:15 AM

Hello qladysq, it takes time to be able to continually set boundaries without feelinq quilty, anqry ect... Just qotta keep doinq it. Usinq some humor miqht help if you can avoid sarcasm. That's my problem is my anqer (or fear of quilt or that they won't like/love me) leads to sarcasm. Unfortunately we, as "qivers" attract or breed takers. Can these takers turn into self sufficient and qrateful people? That cannot be assumed, we can only detach and pray for them to qrow. Spirituality will help us to focus on our own happiness and qratitude. That's were it's at for us. They will have to find their way.