Hello everyone. As you can tell I am such a newbie to alanon. I don't see many people asking questions in this group but I think that it is probably fine to do so?
I have been attending alanon for about 3 months and I have really enjoyed it. I have learned so much and I am getting ready to start working the steps with my sponser (yay!!)
The thing is that I occassionally talk to my therapist and update her on how I am doing and such (I did therapy for awhile and it was very helpful, but now I just talk to her every once in a while). I told her about me joining alanon and asked her what she thought of it and I was shocked by her answer. She said that I need to be vigulant about how people in recovery can become "addicted to their program" She said that some people can make AA and Alanon their new addiction. She said that it doesn't leave room to explore life, and be open to new things ect. I told her that I believed my husband needs AA and it is healthy for him-he is an alcoholic. She said that he probably needs it at this time in his life and he can a healthy outlook on it (she sounded like she thought my hubby won't need it forevor!) I told my husband what she said and he said that he will need it forevor. He said AA is what keeps our family together, what makes him a good and involved father ect...............
I am proud of my self that I did tell my therapist that I didn't feel her opinion of my husband fit. She still proceeded to act as if these programs can be unhealthy. I am just a little confused right now because my therapist has really helped me with so much from my past and now it seems like we are growing apart. It feels a little scary to disagree with her because I have always felt like she knows everything. I think now that I am learning about codependancy it is helping me to see things clearer.
One more question if you don't mind. I love the saying of "detach with love" but is there such a thing as detaching too much. There are a few ladies in my alanon group who seems very detached...very cold-ish (and they have been going for 20 years!) I never want to become too detached.
I hope my post made sense. I recognize that my posts are not as flowing and mature sounding as everyone else's but I am just being myself and I like it :)
-- Edited by daisy31 on Tuesday 1st of November 2011 08:07:10 PM
Hi Daisy...i read your post and i recognized so much from my own life. I also see my therapist but she is a strong advocate of AlAnon..and I have to say that after only 1 year in the program i have seen my life improve. My husband wont go to AA. Thanks to AlAnon I see that as his choice and I try not to let it be a source of conflict between us. TO me detaching "with love"was (and still is) a really difficult concept to work. Someone on another board called it an art and balancing act.
It hurts to see someone I love.. and thought I would grow old with hurt himself and our marriage. By detaching I distance the hurt and start to focus on myself (no that isn't selfish...although, like me, i'll bet you find that hard to believe) After 3 months I don't think you should worry about becoming "addicted" to your recovery. Take it slow...ask your sponsor. BUT do keep going back. It really becomes clearer and clearer over time. It sounds like you have the tools and the help you need to make your recovery stick. Hugs to you.
Hi Daisy, I'm thinking that if you are able to enter a debate with your therapist whom you have always trusted faithfully, then perhaps it speaks of your progress in recovery. I could be wrong, but it's possible you have grown (so yeah). Not everyone embraces 12 steps. And I do know some people that go to so many meetings that I wonder when they have time for daily life; I've wondered if that can be good - but if it's good for them then it's OK. It sounds like you have a lot of time with this therapist; so keep going.
On detachment - I would say that it probably is possible to detach too much, but that would not be "detaching with love". I have boundary issues so I am never really sure where the line is between detaching in a damaging way and detaching with love. I am starting to understand. I have come across several readings that speak of giving the other their dignity; dignity to find their own solutions; to handle their own problems; and learn their own lessons. I cling to the idea of dignity when I need to detach. I've also come to realize that the detachment should be mostly a crisis management tool (as a short "time out" is for an angry child). Then when our emotions have cleared, we might be able to talk through the issues; if not then we need to continue the detachment phase. I too hope I don't stay detached for 20 years - that's a long time! But we must each decide for ourselves what is right and what works for us.
Hi daisy Thank for sharing your concerns. As an alanon member who was also using therapy I know exactly where you're coming from.
The fact is that unless your therapist has been in your position she's not going to understand how alanon works or appreciate its strength. Therapists take a problem and work with it for a set amount of time...and then expect you to move on. They can't understand why people in Alanon stay for years and therefore see it as an addiction to the program. They miss the concept of growth, change, more growth, friendship, identification, more growth, social re grouping....self help......etc
With an addiction you have an unhealthy need, but with alanon there is a constant healthy benefit.... it is different. Having said that.....as a co dependant, alanon can also be a source of people, places and things to fix LOL..... which is why I'm here LOL
Detachment with love...... yes, when I first stated using detachment I used a huge pair of headphones and shut out my husbands ramblings very obviously And also seperated from him to the point of getting the decree nici lol
Niether of these is detachment with love obviously.
I've learned now (for me) that this is a means of detaching my husband (who I love) from the disease of alcoholism (which I loath) When his behaviour was awful I stopped taking it personally and recognised that he was not functioning as he wanted to be Its REALLY hard to do because my whole body and mind was screaming at the time and I wanted to aim it at him.... I was feeling bad and it was his fault....of course I wanted him to know and to make sure he knew that I was right !!!!!! I banned arguing LOL of course just because I'm right doesn't make him wrong.
I walked away....and then wrote down my feelings ....remembering that my words would be read by someone who was actually very sick. I allowed him to read my words with no expectation of a reply.... I just needed to be heard.
When I did achieve this thinking (which took a while) I found it sooooo sad to SEE his struggle. He never wanted to hurt me or his children. He was fighting the demons in his head that kept leading him back to the bottle.
By reacting to his behaviour and joining in his game I was actually hurting him beyond what I could imagine. The depth of his self loathing was more than I could ever shout or vocalise. I was hurting both of us simply by joining in. I could choose not to....To let go and Let God
I know what you mean about the distance that can be between some couples and its really off putting. One male member told of how he and his wife live happily in the same house but have different lives now. Hers was full of AA meetings and his was concerned with his own friends and hobbies. They tolerated eachother. Their detachment has lead them to live at such a distance that they could no longer be company for eachother.
My thoughts were.....I stopped a divorce for this.....i don't want to be stuck in a loveless marriage !
The truth is we all have choices. Alcoholics in recovery are still very difficult people. My husband's head can still play tricks on him and he can easily become fixated on things. He still has his routines (and I work very hard not to become one of them again) They stay very self absorbed and the constant AA meetings can be an absolute pain in the ass to be honest....but I have my meetings too and the conventions are fun.....and we do take the time just to be us. It might sound stupid but we sometimes meet up somewhere for a date....even if its just a coffee in a local macdonalds before he has to go back to work. The more effort BOTH of us put in to the relationship the less obvious the detachment from his illness becomes (does that make sense?) There are pro's and con's. At least we know why our husbands are ass's and why LOL and they have a healthy program to help them. Some so called normal relationships are 100 times worse that mine LOL
My CHOICE is to stay and to work at the relationship we have, which is now possible because we both work our programs. And I can always change my mind at any time and walk away. I also have a friend who is managing to maintain her relationship even though her husband is still active.
Communication is REALLY important. Detachment remains important because if HE strops I can still see his anxieties and compulsions. He still struggles with them daily. I could get cross or try to fix him but that would just make me crazy because its still a waste of energy. I have to step back and let him work it out for himself.....I'm not his mother....I never was lol he's a big boy. I can walk away from all that irritates me and he can walk away from what irritates him (which by the way I am doing right now LOL....we can both be ass's) And for me I've found it a REALLY big help to find couples who HAVE good loving relationships within the fellowships... We chose to spend time with who we percieve as the winners....couple we can aspire to be like Take what you like and leave the rest.
I wouldn't want that male members relationship, and I also know I couldn't stay with someone active,,,,,but what those people have works for them and thats ok.
bit long winded lol sorry, but I hope that helps a little
Hi, I don't know if we can ask questions, because there are some rules usually in the boards and 12-step groups and I don't know exactly how it is in this board, but I will just react what are my experiences and thoughts around your topic. I guess that is fine.
I a case like this I would tell my story and at the and notify the people that I would like EFH: feelings/hopes/Experiences around this topic.
Luckily I found a therapist who told me about 12-steps about 1,5 years ago. I am 35 years old now, codependent, relationship-addiction and I have an alcoholic father. I have from my teenagers years I have problems with these issues. I did go to therapists from being a teenager, but that did not help me very much. It helped a little and I do am very grateful for the ones that I met and that helped me, but inside I still had a wound from my upbringing that stayed very big and I was quit dysfunctional in daily life.
At that time at 34, I did not have a stable job, a family, a house, children, I had it difficult in normal interactions with people, and inside I was depressed. I have some big talents, but for some reason I could not do anything successful with that. But outside nobody could wonder why my life wasn't running like a normal 35 year old. They probably found me strange, lazy or unwilling.
So when I was 34 I found the 12-steps because of this new therapist. Also I exhausted myself by trying to succeed in something. And those 12-steps made the BIG difference. Then I UNDERSTOOD was was going on. Then I found a group of people who were honest about their feelings and lives. It were their stories that made the important insights that I needed to hear. I wished I could be able to explain this to teenagers or people of 20 years old so that they don't have to suffer as long as I did. And start their recovery so late in their lives.
The 12 steps are a spiritual program too. For me that means that this is a life work. We are always spiritual being. It does not stop when I find a job or find a partner. When I feel better myself I can help others. And the work will go on. I will always have some issues that improve and therefore can be beneficial for myself and others. There are so many people in need of healing. Many people stop going to 12-steps when they feel a little bit better. For example they find a partner and then they think they don't need the group anymore. Because they have what they want... they think. It is just then that they will need the CoDa Program. It is said that people need to feel very bad, before they want to change. And it is true. I also see this with myself. I feel that in my case my chaotic thoughts that make me relationship-addicted and my wrong habits that make me choose for the wrong men -every time-, will be something I probably will need to be aware and careful for for the biggest part of my life.
Hopefully a bit less when I am older, but I hope that at that time I will be able to be a good sponsor for others.
Now I work with 1 therapist together who is very familiar with the 12-steps and works together with them and another therapist who is just so wise that she feels that this program is very good. Sometimes I can imagine that in the 12-step groups not everything goes as it should go. You should not forget that in those groups people go who have many emotional issues, so it is also normal that sometimes it goes wrong: for example people can start rescuing each other or start being the boss or even start using others... In those cases I could imagine that when therapists hear about that, they start to think that this is not always so good. In that case their concern is valuable. But I believe we should be careful that our 12-step group is healthy and take care that it makes us improve and then I think they can do miracles.
Any way: I think it was very brave to keep your opinion, especially towards your therapist. Many greetings, Sunshine
i have been to counselling a few times and i am currently seeing a therapist. My new therapist did not know about al anon or coda. However when i explained some of the stuff i have been learning she stated she thought the groups were very good for me. Through my experience therapy has been good, however 12 step recovery has been what has made the most change in my life. my partner is in aa too and has been struggling for past couple of years but he is moving in thr right direction with the help of aa. I go to a few meetings a week, conventions and do service I love my recovery. however i do try and have a balanced life spend time with family etc. It depends what is happening sometimes i need a meeting to help correect my stinking thinking. i am not addicted to recovery i enjoy it and i know it is very good for me i have had lots of proof of that. With any human being I take what i like, no one knows it all. Someone told me opinuions are like bums lol we all have one. Your therapist has a right to her opinion and you to yours so glad you are listening to your own inner voice and being true to yourelf you are proof yourself that it is working .
